It is a sorry day when a town employee should stoop to name calling just because people do not agree with his views.

The only way these contracts can be defined as saving money is if the savings from changing health insurance carriers are counted against the cost. At the current time town employees pay on average 9% of the health costs and the taxpayer pays 91%. If we change health insurance the employees should get 9% of the savings and the taxpayer should get 91% of the savings, but instead to make these contracts look like they are saving taxpayers money those savings that belong to the taxpayer are counted against the raises. That does not seem fair to me or a lot of other people.

I will not stoop to calling town employees any names. They want to receive as much compensation as possible just like anyone else. I will say that most people in Salem are not guaranteed raises for three years. I will just say in uncertain times it makes no sense to give one group of people a guarantee that the taxpayers do not have.

Stephen Campbell

Maybe Town employees have not gotten COLA's for a few years but many folks in the private section have either lost their jobs or have had to take significant pay cuts over the last 5 years due to the economy. Town employees should feel fortunate they have a job at all, never mind should they be getting a COLA. I would bet big money that if the taxpayers voted down all Town employee raises, there would be no mass exodus. The Town employees have a VERY good deal, salary-wise and especially benefit wise. Do you realize most companies pay only 70% of health care? Whenever you hear a Union rep telling you something is a good deal, you can be sure it is only a good deal for the Union member, not the taxpayer.

This letter is exactly why you people of salem, you the taxpayers of salem, you the average hard working private sector taxpayers need to tell them no on there CBA union articles. Dont tolerate this unreasonable request by the union employee's who already recieve more then the average blue collar private sector salem taypayer get's in there employment situation's . Believe me unlike the rest of us they dont worry about putting endsmeat on there dinner tables they dont have everyday worries that you and i do about there employment. We do have some great Salem town emoployee's but this is not something we can force the taxpayers to provide for town employess that already have more then the rest of us have! Please vote no on articles 16-20. bring them back to the bargaining table so we can get some real concession's to these contract's and hopefully end this sanbornazation question that would tie our hands to this exspensive proposal which can potentially comprimise the town of salem's financial stabilty over the next sevaral years

Jake,

Can you supply us with what the members of this union received in total wages last year (2011)? I would like to be able to compare with surrounding communities. I would like to see their total wages, including any overtime, sick-time buybacks and private security pay (directing traffic etc.). If they are in fact underpaid, we need to know that. Thanks.

The fact that the unions have given up their health insurance as a cost saving move should be included in the savings. It is something that needs to be negotiated because it is in all of the contracts that the unions have Blue Cross Blue Shield which is a more expensive insurance than CIGNA. If I read the articles right the unions also gave up time off benefits, clothing allowances and other benefits to receive a raise. I know that we cannot look ahead to what CIGNA's rates will be down the road but even if we only save $200 K a year after this we as taxpayers are way ahead of the game on this. To me is seems like a no-brainer to vote on these contracts. Mr. McDougall you make no sense in your argument all you do is throw out a negative as an elected official I expect you to come up with solutions not create discontent and havoc. What is your solution what concessions more do you want the unions to give up tell me i would like to know it seems to me that they gave up a lot as it is to get these raises. What more do you want them to give up to get a raise?The way I see it the town saves money by not having to pay a lawyer to negotiate contracts for us in the future. The contracts also have our town employees giving up time off which on the long run will save us on replacing them when they take time off. We will not have to pay one of the unions a clothing allowance. We are changing insurance carriers to save money(which had to be negotiated) so I am voting yes on all !

These supposed "savings" are all chump change in the big scheme of things. In the end, we will find that there will be no real savings here, it is all just smoke and mirrors.

The way I see it there is a very large understanding gap between what is understood by town workers compared to what the rest of us has had to deal with the past few years. With the rest of us there is no such thing as a COLA raise, as a matter of fact there have barely been any raises in years. And our health benefits costs go up every year and coverages are reduced. We have to contribute 20, 25, some even 50% of the cost with big deductables of $1000-$2,000 per individual. So what WE see are our taxes going up faster that our incomes while some town employees retire with six figure pensions. We see roads being overpaved that didnt need it while some roads fall into disrepair. We see people asking to rebuild schools while testing scores are going down. And I ask, why would you be surprised if WE vote NO to everything in return?

The Town employes allways Cry ,The town is Cumbling ,and the Schools are falling apart ,The roads are Bad ,And we want trash pick up, And new Sside Walks in the mean time they cry give us more money in raises ,and Longer Contracts we dont care just give it ,in the mean time while your giveing .Give the school super a 10% raise too ,and hide it in the town budget ,The budget board will rubber stamp it .why not, and while we are at at the school in a circle so your voice is louder. YELL LIKE HELL Ya see you at the poll

Do you really believe the garbage that spews from your mouth (actually from the anonymity of your computer)? Comments like this detract from any shred of credibility that you may have.

If the raises are not approved and results in some employees leaving Salem I guarantee you that there will be a very long list of qualified people in line for their jobs. A very very long list.

I am reading some of these positing and my God what is this town coming to. I am almost embarrased to say I am a resident of Salem NH.

Mr. Patten,
What would happen if only 4 of the 5 Articles passed? Would the town be required to honor the 3-year contracts for the 4 approved? Then would the so called $250,000 first year savings also disappear, as well as the so called $600,000 savings in the following 2 years also disappear? This scenario possibly illustrates the danger of accepting a promise of "savings" from linked Sanbornized contact proposals. The union concessions made are very encouraging, and indicate a willingness to help the taxpayers of the town. It just seems that the concessions are starting from a high point and therefore their amounts do not quite match the pain that the taxpayers are feeling at this point!

@Chuck, you don't know me at all. For all you know I am your next door neighbor who you think is a super fellow. Believe it or not Chuck, I am entitled to my opinion, you don't have to like it but I have the right to express it and I do not need you feeling sorry for me at all as I don't feel sorry for you that you have been brainwashed into believing that police officers are honest and trustworthy. Granted, most members of the Salem PD are very nice people when they take that uniform off, no question, but when they put that blue uniform on it turns most of them into arrogant idiots that think nothing of violating citizens rights. RelaityCheck seems to think that police officers have to be intelligent to get hired onto the force. If that is indeed a qualification, all I can say is, someone is doing a lousy job screening applicants in Salem.

Well Don I have not been brainwashed you make a blanket statement that you cannot support by any facts, and I feel sorry for anyone that is small-minded. And yes you are entitled to your opinion and have the right to express it your blanket statement about police officers in general gives you no credibility. The few police officers that I do know seem to be very well educated and very professional. The officers that came to my house in my time of need were courteous and professional. The detective that called me later when they caught the guy that broke into my house was compassionate and caring. When my wife got pulled over and got a speeding ticket 2 years ago the officer was a professional. So I am sorry you have such a small opinion of these people it seems more like you have an ax to grind rather than to make a valid statement.

@Chuck, several police officers live in my neighborhood, a very, very nice part of Town too. Makes me wonder how they can possibly afford it based on their whining about their wages. Socially, they are very nice people, as civilians. However, I have seen these same folks as officers and have spoken to folks who have seen these very same officers in action and they are very different people when they put on that uniform. They go from sitting next to you cheering on the Patriots and then transform into an idiot with total disregard for citizens dignity and rights. Obviously you have not been exposed to the dark side of the Salem PD, consider yourself very fortunate. Unfortunately, I know what I have witnessed multiple times and what other Salemites have told me. All I can tell you is, there is a consistent pattern of unprofessional conduct in the Salem PD ranks that has been going on for years. I will never trust a police officer, sadly, they are a necessary evil in our society but they are NOT to be trusted once they put on that uniform. Frankly, I don't care if you believe me or not, you are entitled to live in your own sanitized little world.

@realitycheck, you know absolutely nothing about me. Personally, I have not had a problem with the Salem PD, however I have witnessed directly their handling of several situations and have spoken with Salemites that have experienced eerily similar treatment by the Salem PD. There are members of the Salem PD that conduct themselves in a very arrogant, non-professional manner and should not be in uniform. In fact, I would say there are still some loose cannons on the force that are a danger to public safety. The Police Chief has been covering up for these yahoos for years. Most of the Salem PD could care less if they stomp all over the rights of the Salem citizenry. You don't have to believe it, you can bury your head in the sand if that makes you feel better. I, however, will keep my distance from these thugs and they will never get my vote for a pay increase.

@realitycheck, as I stated I HAVE seen things, however, either you would rather not face reality, you are employed in law enforcement or you are close to someone who is. That's fine, I understand. If you have witnessed what I have witnessed and then find out how impossible it is to file/report a complaint against a Salem police officer you might feel differently, maybe you are the one with a bias. You ask who would I call if I was a victim of a crime? The answer is yes, I would probably be compelled to call the police but my first call would be to my lawyer. However if I want to have the crime solved, I'd get myself a private investigator.

I'd like to re-focus this discussion a little bit. I think everyone's had their say on how they feel about the PD, and that is pertinent to supporting their union contract for sure. But let's get back to specific questions and discussion on their contract and other contracts up for a vote in March.

What is it going to take for you people to understand that salaries of $150K are the result of that person working a ton of details. He does not get paid $150k out of the box just for showing up. All you see is the big number and you can't get it through your head that these employees work more hours than you could ever imagine. And before you say it, the details are paid for by the vendors that hire them. These employees have not had a raise for about 4+ years.

They are lucky that they have the ability to make that kind of extra money with the extra details. We in the public sector don't have that abilty and we are going broke paying for constant tax increases, among other increased expenses. If the town fathers could only keep expenses in line and taxes under control there woulnd't be this issue. So you see, the only thing under our control is whether to vote for increased budgets and raises. And sorry to say many of us will not be voting for ANY pay raises or increases in spending of any kind as a result.

It's the equivalent of getting a second job. You, in the private sector, can have it if you really want it. Once again, you have it good in Salem, compared to other neighboring towns. A $7K Salem tax bill is $9K plus in most surrounding towns. I'm not saying that some people are not struggling, but take a look to your neighboring communities. It could be worse. At least you have the retail and business base to take the edge off.

To reality check 1: The head tax of ten dollars/person was eliminated because it cost about $1 to collect it because of printing and postage costs. It just was not efficient. In addition it was not paid by business or anyone that did not need to register a car.

The problem with a linear tax is it is regressive. Everyone pays regardless of their ability to pay. The property tax while more progressive while people are working becomes regressive once people retire since most people make significantly less once they retire, but they pay the same amount in property tax.

The answer is to find ways to be more efficient which in government means controlling personnel costs and making sure that other expenditures are not wasted like having to crack seal Shore Dr a few years after it was totally crack sealed.

I appreciate your thinking about solutions.

Stephen Campbell

Reality check 1 and Chuck Robert sound an awful lot like police officers who might directly benefit from having this contract pass! The attempts to disguise themselves as anything but is really quite comical. It's a shame they don't realize by posting in their condescending and aggressive manner they are actually hurting their cause. That in and of itself describes the Salem police in a nutshell. It starts at the top with the Chief and as evidenced by his deputy's letter and the posters on here it runs down hill. If these contracts go through you will see the officers pay skyrocket and their use of sick time climb as well. It was posted on another article on here earlier...12 days of use it or lose it...what do you think the officers will do? The town will ultimately be on the hook for increased hidden costs no matter how you slice it.

Every citizen is fielding questions from family and friends on how to control costs of maintaining a home. I wish the only increase was coming from town taxes. But the increases are coming from real needs like, heat and medical cost. The discussions taking place here and the power vested in a vote is the reason employees formed a union. Many other services I require just with hold their services until I pay. Many tax payers are not given an option to eliminate services with respect to the government. Professionals do not continue to provide services that their customers do not want. It would be nice to know that mentality was offered by the government. The government mandates laws that are not needed or required by the constitution. We use to pay for kindergarten out of house hold expenses, now we are forced to pay. We use to be allowed to work on our own homes, now we are forced to hire over priced contractors by law! We use to be the government now the government is an entity all to itself. When a town employee tells me I have to do something I say you are fired!
Trash pick up will become another mandated service that in 5 years I will be sitting at my computer arguing for or against. When do we have the right as payers to say "NO." No I don't want to be forced to pay.

Here is a suggestion: create a book with all the services the town provides. Which ones are mandated by law and which one are not? We can then change the law or not fund services not mandated. How about putting tracking devices on town vehicles. I would not expect to pay a doctors wage to change a bed pan. So why do we pay over qualified employees to do mundane work? A full time "professional police officer" should not stand on the side of the road with a sign telling a commuter to "STOP or GO." Just one obvious example but there are so many others! I cannot afford to play golf but I "have" to pay for kids to under a school budget! Really!!!!!

You call Our Selectmen Mr Campbell names .And he stands up ,and responds with out calling names back that makes him a better person then you ,What the union cant stand is he is for the tax payer ,and is like our Lawyer Defending us ,This is what you the tax payers need in Salem, and doing this on a lop sided board of 3 that is allways on the other side of any issue ,.My hat is off to Mr Campbell for doing what i call a good job

What is it Mr Gill that Mr Campbell has done ?

I can put a 5th grader on a board and tell him to say NO to everything.

What solutions has Mr Campbell ever brought forward for Salem? Does he have a master plan for the next 5 years, a plan to reduce insurance costs, bring down employee costs, etc????? No he doesn't, he just says no to all the employee matters and no to any raise in taxes.

Now that Ms Covey and Ms Roth are leaving, we'll see who you blame next for all your problems,because without those 2 on the board you are going to see some real floundering !

It may or may not be that the Sanbornized union contracts will save the taxpayers money. I will believe it if my tax bill drops. But one thing is for sure. For the vague promise of a few dollars off of our tax bill we would forgo our right to vote to fund these contracts each year as we have for many years. Perhaps I should propose a law that if you do not vote at all you get a hundred dollars off of your tax bill. If that does not work try two hundred. Maybe the cynics are right: everyone has his price. It seems some people are willing to throw out their sacred rights pretty cheaply.

As Bob Campbell said ,At the 1 delibraie session ( high school ) Put your old tax bill on your refrigator door and very time you open it you will notice how much your tax was went up in 2011 , now there asking for more tax 16$ more
as for me my vote is NO to more tax spending No means no

Question ,Who checks the folks crying more for there ID as a tax payer in salem ?

James,
Please lay off the Box O' Wine next time you plan on posting your thoughts!